Since it's founding in 1997, the CYC-Net discussion group has been asked thousands of questions. These questions often generate many replies from people in all spheres of the Child and Youth Care profession and contain personal experiences, viewpoints, as well as recommended resources.
Below are some of the threads of discussions on varying Child and Youth Care related topics.
Questions and Responses have been reproduced verbatim.
Listen to thisHello, my name is Kimberly Post I am currently a first yeah Child and Youth Care student
at Fleming College, I am doing a project for my professional practice
regarding the Youth Criminal Justice Act. We are focusing specifically
on should youth be tried as adults.
My question is "As a Child and Youth Care have you ever came across a crime where a youth
has been tried as an adult, what where your feelings towards the
verdict? If possible what type of crime was it?"
Thank you in advance
Kimberly Post
...
Hi Kimberly
It is certainly not an easy question and I am sure there will be as many
opinions as there will be responses. Generally there is a good
reason why children should not be tried as adults – they are not adults.
Simple as that. As we know there are many developmental changes
taking place for teenagers, physiologically, psychologically and
socially, and teenagers do not reason the same way adults do.
Therefore, any sentence for a criminal offence for a child or youth
should take into consideration their level of development.
Of course, the justice system also has other considerations – the
interest and protection of society in general, and the interest of
justice which includes the nature of the offence. Therefore,
justice officials will never have the same perspective as child care
practitioners have – our focus is the best interest of each individual
child, regardless of their behaviour, while Justice has a broader
perspective and more "clients" to consider. It is the duty of the
court to uphold the "good values" of society and protect citizens agains
danger, especially when posed by someone who committed a crime.
I have worked in the criminal courts for a number of years, but of
course these systems vary depending on the country you are in, so it is
not always comparable.
While I think the children should not be tried as adults, I also understand why in some circumstances the courts may want to do that. I have worked not only with offenders, but also the victims of crime. Perhaps the question should not be so much whether children can or should be tried as adults, but rather to ask "under which circumstances" would children be tried as adults?
I think it is important to understand the context of
each specific individual case. It is easy for me to generalise
that children should not be tried as adults, but then I also know that
there are always exceptions to the rule – you just need to find the
"right" set of circumstances and then it is not so easy to generalise.
Sorry, not easy answers here.
Werner van der Westhuizen
Port Elizabeth, South Africa
...
Dear Kimberley,
I sometimes wonder if we can be as precise as authorities seem to want
to be about what does or does not constitute youth . I have pasted below
a post from my Leaving Dundee blog which recounts the crime, the trial
and the sentence meted out to Edward Woollard, a student in the UK.
Edward, who was 18, was old enough to be tried in an adult court
and he had committed a serious offence but still in my view this case
exemplifies the way courts on the behalf society are part of a process
which at best marginalises yout hand at worst, and all too often
demonises them. Be forewarned the views I express on this matter may not
be held by the majority of adults in the United Kingdom. Nonetheless I
hope this excerpt may in some way be helpful towards your general
discussion.
On January 11th, 2011 Judge Geoffrey Rivlin QC handed down a "deterrent
sentence" to Edward Woollard and sent him to prison for 2 years and 8
months. 18 years old Edward had acted dangerously by putting the lives
of others at risk during a protest in London about a government
decision to increase in student tuition fees. On November 10th, 2010
Edward threw a metal fire extinguisher from the roof of the Conservative
Party's headquarters building at Millbank in London. The extinguisher
narrowly missed falling on policemen and other protesters who were on
the pavement and street below. The sentence the judge meted out to
Edward was intended as a warning to others who might do something like
this in the future.
Edward's impulsive and dangerous deed was outrageous
but in essence it was impelled by the same overwhelming excitement which
has induced innumerable young people to carry out potentially dangerous
acts when for the first time they have become a part of the drama of
what they believe is righteous protest. Peaceful protest is a right.
Protest is also a part of the adolescent process so necessary for human
development. Many of us, however old we are now, may at some time in our
lives have experienced the feelings Edward was having that day, but we
were lucky enough not to have our impulsive, foolish and at times
dangerous acts discovered. Equally some of us may have been discovered
but were fortunate enough to be responded to by thoughtful adults who
forgave our trespasses with a stern warning and gave us the opportunity
to reflect on just how stupid our actions were. For most of us this
response worked.
That's why it is difficult to understand Judge Rivlin's harsh, not to
say vindictive sentencing of Edward Woollard. Edward, it is generally
agreed, has previously been of good character. He is not a hardened
criminal. He is not even an experienced activist. This was the first
protest he had attended. After the offence was committed Edward accepted
the advice of his mother to give himself up to the police immediately.
Since the event he has consistently expressed contrition for his act.
Judge Rivlin says he took this into consideration but it does not seem
to have engendered judicial moderation. For the next 16 months at least
Edward will spend time firstly in a Young Offenders' secure unit and
subsequently in an adult prison. Will this help him ? Will making an
example of Edward stop other young people doing thoughtless and at times
dangerous things ?
It is difficult not to conclude that Judge Rivlin's
decision has shown that the political and financial powers will be
defended at all costs. If you threaten them or act to question their
legitimacy you will not deal with the scales of justice you will feel
the sword of Damocles descended.
Best wishes,
Charles Sharpe
...
Hi Kimberly,
I am a Child and Youth Care who's title is forensic community support worker. In my role
I assist youth who are medium to high risk offenders to access
appropriate community resources and supports to address their risk and
meet identified needs. I can recall over the past few years, one
case where a youth had come through our services to be assessed
according to section 34 of the YCJA. This youth had past trauma history
and a very unstable childhood.
Without giving any identifying details this youth
was from an ethnic minority community where disproportionate numbers of
this ethnic group are over represented in the criminal justice system.
The verdict for this youth was that he was elevated to be tried as an
adult and as such was found guilty and sentenced to adult time for
murder.
Your questions regarding my feelings. I don't ever think that jail
is the answer for anyone, considering how the system is set up.
Statistics show that numbers as high as 75% of those incarcerated are
living with a mental disorder. The YCJA was established on principles of
rehabilitation, however in practice it does not function as it was
designed. Many youth go in and out of youth detention facilities
numerous times before the court and rehabilitation is barely a
consideration. Rehabilitation can often be a very costly consideration
especially for youth with complex cases (low income homes, communities
infested with criminal activities, violence in the home, drugs, stigma).
The sad reality is that these marginalized communities are often made up
of ethnic minorities with hugh societal hurdles to overcome such as
stereotyping and racism. In many cases justice is not blind and as a
result ethnic minorities get longer and harsher sentences.
In my opinion youth should never be elevated into the adult system.
Until our justice system adopts a framework of thinking which
focuses on rehabilitation and adds the necessary resources to support
rehabilitation; incarceration does very little other than to delay the
unhealed offenders next offense.
James Hartley
...
Kim
I worked with a young man who committed a planned murder at the age of
16. He was tried as an adult, found guilty and sentenced as such.
He spent his sentence from age 16-18 in a youth facility and when he
turned 18 (or a few months thereafter as they were waiting for a cell to
open in his gang block) he was moved to an adult facility.
He was not in a gang prior to going to jail. He joined a gang a
couple months before being moved to the penitentiary because of his
perceived need for 'protection' and he thought that he would not be
'initiated' as a gang member in prison the same way if he was already in
the gang.
Do I agree with his outcome? I'm on the fence. Its believed
that he likely suffers from FASD but he also had a very violent drug and
alcohol fuelled upbringing and appeared at the time to be developing a
significant personality disorder. There really was no place for him
prior to his crime as it was. Unfortunately the prison system
seems to be the best place for him to be. He has a stable home, he
can get an education or trade, he gets fed. All things that were
not happening prior to his incarceration.
Likely because of the suspected FASD he will never be able to be
completely 'self-sufficient' as he would be expected to be should he had
been tried as a youth and given freedom early (I think its 5 yrs for
murder as a youth). Unless my province (I'm in Canada) does something to
address adults and youth affected by FASD to ensure support throughout
their lifetime, the best place for this guy is jail... And that's sad,
but not uncommon for many incarcerated youth and adults.
If you don't know a lot about FASD I would suggest you look into it, the
prison system houses a higher population of FASD affected individuals
than any other institution (including the general public).
However that is the ONE specific case that I know about a youth being
tried as an adult. I would have to consider on a case by case
basis whether I would agree with a judge's decision to try a child as an
adult or not opposed to making a sweeping judgement myself.
Cheers
Lisa
...
Dear Werner van der Westhuizen
I completely agree with what you have said, especially the fact of
putting the best interest of the child first despite their behaviour. If
a child gets charged as an adult then they will have to do time with
adults, I can imagine that it would not be a safe situation for a child
to have to deal with adult criminals. There definitely are children who
commit serious crimes but support and treatment would be the best option
so that child could possibly grow into a adult who makes better
choices.Most people know once a person is prisoned then it becomes a
normal part of their lives then they will grow into a more dangerous
adult then they would have if they got the help they needed.
Kristen
...
Dear Kristen
I agree with you on this one. The best interest principle applies to all
situations pertaining to decisions affecting young people. Whether a
child has committed a serious crime, international laws like the UNCRC
and some cases, legislation does not see it fit and proper to try youth
as adults. We do not want to imagine the horrendous experiences and
unfortunate predicament that these young people can be faced with if put
together with adults. If this was to happen, then it is almost
guaranteed that a young person will leave prison more damaged than when
he/she entered. This definitely is not what we want to see happening.
Vincent Hlabangana
South Africa
