Since it's founding in 1997, the CYC-Net discussion group has been asked thousands of questions. These questions often generate many replies from people in all spheres of the Child and Youth Care profession and contain personal experiences, viewpoints, as well as recommended resources.
Below are some of the threads of discussions on varying Child and Youth Care related topics.
Questions and Responses have been reproduced verbatim.
Listen to thisA visitor to the CYC-NET web site posted the following question through the "Question and Answer" page:
I keep hearing so much about the centrality of "the relationship" in the work of Child and Youth Care friends. Are they for real -- or is this a bit sentimental and bogus? Surely the doctor and the plumber and the auto repairman must equally have good relationships with their customers/clients/patients? What's so different with Child and Youth Care people?
Jon (Jack)
...
Child and youth care work is relationships, that is if we are talking about
relationships that empower by integrating self, teaching, counseling, and
learning into a myriad of interactions throughout the course of the day.
Mark Krueger
...
The relationship is crucial because of the previous experiences of the youth
and the fact that the youth worker 'lives' with the youth daily. To me the
relationship is a key, but not the only component of the work. I am fond of
citing a trilogy of As: Attachment, Attention, and Activity. All of these
are mediated through relationship. At the same time the 3 A factors affect
the relationship – e.g. an activity can serve as a focal point to develop
relationship.
Karen VanderVen
...
Relationship is in Child and Youth Care work just as crucial as it is in
social work activities. I agree with Karen that the three As attach, attend,
activity are helpful structures in relationships with children and youth,
especially working with the kids who are hurt in both emotional as well as
in physical ways. However, relationships with children and youth are well
reflected in the writings of Buber and Kirkegaard, the meeting of the I and
the Thou ant the I and the It. These are complicated propositions but useful
to understand for appreciating how relationship with children and youth
become crucial.
Hans Eriksson
...
Karen and Mark have responded to the question raised below, and I certainly
agree with their observations. I would only add two points.
First, it is precisely in the area of relationships with others that many of
the youngsters with whom we work have been most deprived; therefore, they
need to experience real, wholesome, deep relationships if they are to be
able to learn about relationships and how to relate positively to others. I
think these can only be learned meaningfully by experiencing them.
Second, a related point, the plumber, auto repairman, etc., need to relate
to others as a means to an end; for the Child and Youth Care worker, the
relationship is an end as well as a means -- it is, in many ways, the focal
content as well as the method in the work.
Therein lies the difference, at least for me, in the role of relationships
in our work compared to the work of other fields such as mentioned by Jon.
Jerry Beker
...
I agree with Karen V's 3 a's and have been very curious lately about the
work that is being done to understand how relationships, skills, knowledge
and self awareness are used in context in Child and Youth Care.
There have been a number of good studies and papers on this topic lately in
the journals. The metaphors tossed around are jazz, dance, self in action,
etc. In other words how does one use one's self skill and knowledge in a
range of circumstances, situations and activities in a manner that empowers
and promotes growth ... and conversely what are the activities that allow on
the opportunity to maximize this potential.
Personally, I've been doing a thematic analysis of relationships -- i.e.,
been observing workers, analysing their stories and reflecting on my own
experience to identify themes in successful interactions. So far I'm focused
on presence, meaning, rhythm and atmosphere. For example, in successful
interactions workers are present in the moment, curious about and sensitive
to the meaning of an interaction or moment for a youth as interpreted
through his or her cultural lens, attempting to get in synch with a youth's
developmental rhythms for trusting and growing, and sensitive to the
atmosphere in which the interaction is taking place.
This, of course, is a very general description of the themes, all of which
are much more complex in meaning and practice. And a lot of fun to think
about.
Mark Krueger
...
An understandable question -- and a short answer:
Jon partly answers his own question by pointing out how necessary it is for
people to establish relationships with others – not only with the
significant people in their lives but also with the plumber and the garage
mechanic. Young people who come into Child and Youth Care programmes are the
very kids who have been failed in their relationships with others, most
often to the extent of losing their own ability and confidence to establish
and maintain positive and reciprocal relationships.
Child and youth care workers like meeting people, being with people,
listening to people – and are good at this with those who find it difficult
or threatening or hopeless. The value to the child of the relationship in
Child and Youth Care work is simply the relating itself, the experience of
being with people who can offer a respectful, responsive and rational
relationship, which will survive the expected mistrust and testing.
The youngster gets to the point where he realises, Hey, I can do this; with
whatever imperfections, doubts and false starts, I can have a fair shot at
relating, mutually, with others -- without having to bully and dominate, or
having to submit to too high an asking price, or having to employ neurotic
or manipulative methods. Just me.
This is no quick, simple lesson for most of these kids to learn. It takes a
lot of knowledge, method, created opportunities, patience and generosity on
the part of the child care worker – and getting them "up to speed" where
they can take this back into their real lives back home and at school. With
the significant people in their lives – and with the plumber!
Brian Gannon
...
I agree with Brian. Other points to remember about the relationship – A
great deal of modelling of appropriate behaviour is taking place. The child
is involved in a relationship that teaches skills of conflict resolution,
caring and problem solving.
Debra Cockerton
...
Another thought to add to the growing and thoughtful pile: the power in
relationship is based in very ordinary moments being exchanged, that is
moments many of us take for granted such as having someone give us something
they took time to think about [not just pick up a quick something that will
do], knowing when to touch and when to hold back, noticing something
interesting about a person and telling them so, asking someone to help "you"
[rather than the usual youth worker role of helping someone else], putting
down what we are in the middle of because a child/youth has approached us
"now" [rather than asking them to wait just a minute ... ], having a food
fight ... Well, that's my addition to a most critical conversation I think – without relationship, all the technique in the world is nothing but dead
baggage.
Penny Parry
...
Jon,
Well, I can see this is a provocative question. Like Mark, I too wondered at
first if this was a serious question. Perhaps that's because a question like
this cuts, in its simplicity and directness, to the heart of the matter and
questions what we see as the very foundation of our work. My first reaction
was to say `you can't be serious' and then to move on. But I did keep coming
back to it. Because it is a question I deal with every day in my work with
staff. Whether expressed or not, it is there in many of the alternative
questions I hear:
Like, shouldn't he learn a lesson?
Or what makes him think he can get away with that?
Or why should we tolerate that behaviour?
Or How am I going to get him to do that?
At times I wonder out loud: `Are you in this relationship, or are you
outside looking in, monitoring and manipulating, but not `being' in the
relationship?' For the relationship is this thing between us, but it is also
us being together. It is us, we are it. I know, it gets kind of zen-like at
this point, but let me continue to struggle – my struggle is about
connectedness, by the way.
Think of a time, I might say, when you had a feeling of ‘we’-ness with
somebody. It might have been when you were dancing; or playing catch; or
walking in rhythmn down the street – at these moments there is a sense of
connectedness, of moving together in harmony.
Imagine some other time when, for example, you worked on a common project
with another person, and you had a sense of `being in this together' as you
both shared the excitement, and frustrations, of trying to reach a common
goal.
Or sometimes, in all our lives, we have the experience of being `at one with
somebody else' – a time when there is a `fusion of joint experiencing' with
another person. Now, I'm not referring to a time when I am you and you are
me, but rather a time when we are us.
These are all times when we are `in relationship'. And the word `in' is
important here.
You see, effective youth care practice is not just about `having
relationships' but about `being in relationship' with youth; about entering
into the relationship, not just getting along with someone else but about
being in the getting along. We don't just `have' a relationship, like having
a chocolate bar, or a new TV or a shinny penny. We enter in to relationship
and from within the context of that relationship we help to facilitate
change.
Now it is true that the plumber, the car salesperson and the gardner like to
have good `relations' with their clients, but they don't enter in to a
`relationship'. Effective youth care practice is not about having, it is
about being.
Jon, this is an important question for your work with young people. Because
how you frame it, influences what you do. So, good for you for asking it.
Anyway, as always, I ramble. Let me suggest a few youth care reading areas
to explore:
Mark Krueger on presence, rythmicity and relationships
Gerry Fewster on being in relationship
Henry Maier on attachments
Leanne Rose on being a youth care worker
Bill Halpin on seeing I to I
Karen VanderVen on self in activities
Edna Guttman on the fusion of self and experience
Leon Fulcher on joint experiencing
Lorraine Fox on healing through relationship.
Or even my own stuff on connected experiencing.
Finally, there was an issue of the Journal of Child and Youth Care
(Volume 5.2) I think, which addressed the question of how is youth
care the same as or different from other helping ways. It covered some of
the territory which may be of interest to you.
Thom Garfat
...
Dear Jon,
Thank-you for asking about relationships in Child and Youth Care. You have
touched off one of the better dialogues on a topic in weeks.
Everyone who parents has probably become aware of the buzzword 'quality
time' as they continue the daily struggle to balance work, housework and
lifework. It is no different for Child and Youth Care workers who find their
job descriptions becoming increasingly burdened by more and more all the
time.
Far too often, Child and Youth Care workers become caught up in catching up
and miss the obvious that they are there for the young people and conversely
the young people are there for them. Quality time, being in the moment, one
to one, whatever one may want to call it, that valuable time simply spent in
enjoying living with the young people is what it is all about. Strive to
make such time the priority after the other is said and done and come to see
it as the reward for work well done. Carve out such time and simply enjoy
the moment at whatever activity you each have chosen. You will find both
your work and your purpose rewarded and rewarding.
Often younger workers ask, what happens to these kids or does it ever work
out? It does and it does primarily around relationship. Chance meetings,
ongoing contact and Christmas and Mother's Day often find former young
people, now adults and often parents themselves coming forward to express
appreciation and just review old memories. If you were truly in the moment,
you will find you just go there again with that person and over your shared
memories to enjoy the best reward this work offers, a small celebration of
healthy humanity. Coincidentally, these confirmations tend to come from the
very young people you once struggled the hardest with, may have thought of
giving up on and of course, had the strongest feelings for.
In the end, this is the stuff of time and determination. Time carved out of
busy schedule, time taken to simply enjoy life on an equal basis and
determination to do both. Last week, my young people and myself sampled an
eighty foot, frozen toboggan run together. As we all faced the challenge of
surviving that sucker, each at our own levels of courage and endurance we
shared lots of laughs, emotions and a few passing boo-boos and overall a
solid chunk of real quality time which got us out of our usual skins and
transformed us into survivors of the slide and perhaps of much more besides.
Such opportunities are everywhere in your workday, seize them and go with
them.
Garth Goodwin
...
Wow, what a great discussion about relationships – thanks Thom and Penny – I
think we're doing professional development. I'm thinking about some of those
moments and questions you raised ... cool.
Mark Krueger
...
Greetings!
I've spent the last half hour or so catching up on the relationship dialogue
of the last week. I would like to jump into this discussion, but would first
like to try and summarize my understanding of some of the key points raised
thus far.
1) that "the relationship" is the central mediating force through which
attachment, attention, and activity can produce development (Karen);
2) that the study of themes and rhythms in relationships can reveal much
about "successful interactions" between children and youth, and those of us
who care for them (Mark);
3) that "real, wholesome, deep" relationships are precisely what is needed
for the children and youth with whom we work because of their relative and
typical deprivation in these very areas, and that in Child and Youth Care,
"the relationship is an end as well as a means" (Jerry)
4) that the primary value of Child and Youth Care is in "the relating
itself, the experience of being with people who can offer a respectful,
responsive and rational relationship, which will survive the expected
mistrust and testing," and that this "lesson" is complex to learn and
demanding to facilitate (Brian);
5) that "the relationship" ultimately models "appropriate behavior" such as
"conflict resolution, caring and problem solving" (Debra)
6) that the power of "the relationship" rests not so much in that which is
extraordinary but rather in the "ordinary moments being exchanged" between
child and care giver (e.g., "noticing something interesting about a person
and telling them so") (Penny);
7) that it is the "zen-like" process of entering into and " 'being in
relationship' with youth" that inevitably "facilitate[s] change" (Thom).
From what I can tell (and I hope I didn't miss anyone or any essential
point), it seems as though everyone so far agrees that "the relationship"
and the "relational process" in particular are at the transformational heart
of Child and Youth Care. If this conclusion is fair and accurate, I would
wholeheartedly agree. However, I would like to share an experience I
recently had that feels relevant to this discussion, and raises additional
questions in my mind.
A couple of weeks ago, I spent a day with a large group of Child and Youth Care practitioners and supervisors in North Carolina. Among other
objectives, one essential task of our meeting was to determine what was at
the very core of Child and Youth Care as these individuals lived and defined
it..
They said many of the same things that we are saying here (e.g., that the
ability and willingness to create healthy and healing relationships with
children, youth, and families is essential to their work). In fact, these
individuals generated a number of examples of "best" and "worst"
relationship practices in Child and Youth Care; and it would probably be
fair to say that they considered it a given that "the relationship" and "the
relational process" were at the heart of what they did. But, as such
meetings have before, this one also revealed at least three interrelated
questions.
First, how do we best ensure that those individuals who are selected to
develop relationships with children, youth, and families are willing and
able to do so in a healthy and healing manner?
Second, to ensure and facilitate such relationships, what if anything should
be required of these individuals before they are hired and while they are on
the job?
Third, what effect, if any, would such requirements (e.g., acquiring or
demonstrating specific skills or areas of knowledge) have on a care giver's
ability to cultivate the kinds of "connected" and "being with" relationships
that we all value?
As with Jon's original question, these three may also be basic (i.e., have
been asked before, in one form or another). But, I'd be curious to hear any
thoughts from the group.
Craig Shealy
...
Craig,
I don't think I said it was a `zen-like process' but rather that in
explaining my idea, I said it 'gets a little zen-like' at this point,
referring to the process of explanation, not the relationship. I guess my
idea was that being-in-relationship, as a concept, is far enough removed
from our normal way of thinking about `relationship' that thinking about it
this way, requires a shift in the `how' of our thinking.
That being said, it is worth reading an old article by David Austin and Bill
Halpin, on the `I to I' relationship, where the zen-like approach to
thinking about relationships is promoted.
I am looking forward to peoples response to your questions.
Thom Garfat
...
Craig Shealy ended his summary of the relationship discussion so far with
three questions —
First, how do we best ensure that those individuals who are selected to
develop relationships with children, youth, and families are willing and
able to do so in a healthy and healing manner?
Second, to ensure and facilitate such relationships, what if anything should
be required of these individuals before they are hired and while they are on
the job?
Third, what effect, if any, would such requirements (e.g., acquiring or
demonstrating specific skills or areas of knowledge) have on a care giver's
ability to cultivate the kinds of "connected" and "being with" relationships
that we all value?
Hi Craig,
Just some quick thoughts on your three questions.
First I think we use the best available instruments to screen individuals
entering the field to see if they have the personal attributes as well as
the capacity to develop skills to relate with children in an effective way
(I know there are lots of loaded terms in this statement).
Then I think we also interview candidates with panels of experts, Child and Youth Care workers who have demonstrated over a period of time the ability
and capacity to relate. Personally in my experience as a supervisor I found
the latter source a more accurate predictor. I also felt it was important to
stayed tuned in to one's gut feelings and instincts and the collective guts
and instincts of people on the recruitment team.
While on the job we develop mentoring and supervisory relationships with
workers to support them and expect that they continue to demonstrate their
ability to relate--there are any number of evaluations processes to
determine how someone is doing. I prefer the qualitative measures.
The skills of relationships and the knowledge base have been articulated in
many forums, including the Journal of Child and Youth Care, and the Child
and Youth Care Forum over the years. The body of knowledge is extensive and
should be required. Personally I believe we should work towards a minimum of
a bachelors degree with a focus on relationships. In other words, as workers
are with youth they weave as much care, learning, and counseling as possible
into their interactions with sensitivity to discovery and context. The goal
of course is to empower.
These are just a few quick thoughts, each of which can be elaborated upon
with volumes of materials and experiences – thanks for outlining the
previous discussion.
Mark Krueger
...
This discussion on relationships has been very stimulating and has let us to
thinking about the value, also, of written materials for all of us.
Throughout the discussion, for example, there have been
references to various articles, so we were thinking of two things.
One, perhaps we could post the occasional article – from one of the Journals – on CYC-NET web site so people who were interested could access it and read
at their leisure.
To try this out we are posting Austin, D. and Halpin, W. (1987) "Seeing I to
I: A Phenomenological analysis of the caring relationship." Journal of
Child Care, Vol.3 No.3
Two, we were thinking that perhaps people who have them could send along
appropriate references and we could post them as well. They would have to be
references which were relatively easy to access for most people – e.g.,
journal articles. We thought that for some people this might expand this
discussion. What do people think of these two ideas?
Brian and Thom
...
Greetings, Craig, and colleagues.
Thank you Craig, for your excellent summation of the various comments about
relationship. This could be the foundation of a more extensive discussion
and ultimately, publication (sound interesting?). I think your three points
are very well taken and agree absolutely.
1. We need to do exactly what you state, ensure that those selected to form
relationships with children, etc. are willing and able to do so in a healthy
manner. The challenge will be to the whole system and context that we work
in – it is not only the literal selection process, but the complex of
societal forces that shapes the agencies and programs that utilize workers
and the ways in which they are used.
2. Certainly things should be required at the time of hiring and on the job – again, going above and beyond (that is the challenge to our future) of
how much training, pre-service and in-service should occur – as important as
that is. Again the issue is both specific and systemic.
3. To me, skills and areas of knowledge (and I believe we know what they
are for this work) – enhance care giver's abilities to form relationships
and 'be – with'. It gives care givers a stronger and more complex frame of
reference with which to make decisions 'in the moment' (a kind of
information retrieval process) and presents a more enriched personality for
kids to relate too, i.e. more 'hooks' for them to anchor to.
I have NEVER been one of those who believed knowledge and skills both within
the field and out interfere with 'spontaneity' and ability to relate. (an
old argument against training and education. Too much 'professional'
education limits spontaneity. Total nonsense – to be professional in this
field one would be encouraged in use of self and would know how and why one
was doing this, and for what purpose.
Thank you again for your comments – I DO enjoy hearing from you – and let's
all keep up the dialogue. Hope someone's printing it out – shouldn't be lost
to cyberspace.
Karen VanderVen
...
"The time has come," the Walrus said,
"To talk of many things:
Of plumbers – gardeners – and car sellers -
Not cabbages and kings -
And why the 'net' is boiling hot -
Does 'relationship' have wings?"
Relationships – relationships -
Are they not all the same?
In toilets – gardens – vehicles -
Is it just another name?
Do we maybe need a manual
To establish such a claim?
"For what of us," the plumber cried,
"We plumb, we do relate,
We care, we share, we worry -
Morning early and evening late.
We answer the call of duty -
At low, low hourly rate."
"And what about our gardening?"
The gardeners shall wail -
"We plant, we weed, we nurture -
Relationship's our grail.
Our tending is so beautiful -
You can't ignore our tale."
"But don't forget our profession,"
Car salespersons will squeal.
"We do our best, honest we do -
To close for you a deal.
And when you pay a bit too much -
Your pain we truly feel."
"O Walrus," said the youth care soul -
"Let's solve this riddle now.
Whose 'relating'- whose 'relationship'
Should get a first rate bow?
What meaning are we seeking out?
Do we have the 'why' and 'how'?"
"I know, I know," a child cried,
"For I have been in care.
The folks who helped me out the most -
Were great at 'being there'.
They came so close – they moved away -
Their presence they did share.
They cared, they shared, they let me grow -
They took the time to see -
They knew that in 'relationship'
They had to let me be -
They knew when I seemed different -
That it was still just ME."
But – my Mom sells cars and she gardens -
And my Dad a plumber is.
And I am in 'relationship' with them both.
With no apologies to Lewis Carroll (C.L.Dodgson) or to walruses.
A slight tinge of guilt for leaving out the oysters.
Karl W. Gompf
...
A quick note to add to Mark's ideas on how we "get" people who are good at
relating/relationship: amongst the experts who might help plan the hiring
process and do interviews, how about some young people who have had direct
experience with what has/has not been helpful? I would be interested in
people's thoughts on this as this is an "easy" thought and a considerable
challenge to put into practice.
However, I've been spending some time recently with young people who are
involved in hiring and "no flies on them" is all I can say!
Penny Parry
...
The relationship discussion has intrigued me and like several others who
have jumped in to comment, I have scanned briefly and noted that I want to
pay more attention to this discussion and should come back and re-read the
posting. So last night I printed them all off (Yes, Karen, someone is doing
that!). I ran out of time to read at work and so took them home. In what I
thought was a quiet moment as dinner was cooking in the oven I grabbed them
to review. As I sat down to read, my 11 year old plunked herself in the
chair opposite and started chattering. She was quite distracting and I was
REALLY interested in the ideas that people were expressing on relationship.
However, when I hit the ideas about being present and being in the moment
(not new ones, just there on the page), I tossed the stack of papers and
decided to JUST DO IT! We had a wonderful conversation and I was again
reminded of how important we are to each other.
Later (much) I reflected on the opportunity she presented and what I learned
from our interaction. It seems to me as our field professionalizes the
demands for paper, accountability for change, focus on positive outcomes for
the children, youth and families that we work with impinge upon the nature
of our work and our relationships both with clients and co-workers. Some of
the skills demanded to do these things, are actually counterproductive to
developing relationships because they require the ability to organize,
schedule, and be systematic and I think these demands can pull us away from
relationship, if we aren't aware of how we respond to them. So, in response
to Craig's questions about ensuring people can develop relationships, I
might sarcastically suggest that we look for self-aware individuals who are
disorganized, late, and avoid paperwork. I also believe that we need to
provide time for them to explore and develop their awareness in the context
of our relationship and co-worker relationships.
As Karl's poem points out relationships are everywhere. While their
essential character may change, they are everywhere. The character of any
relationship is ever changing-as long as I attend to the relationship and
the person. This is the power of the work we do with relationship. Youth and
children come to us and try to create relationships as they know
them-patterns of communication and ways of being with each other that don't
work. We work to create something different for them and the patterns
change. Trying to get these concepts across to young people just entering
the field is a challenge.
I am enjoying the discussion about the requisite knowledge, and skills, and
self-awareness that promote the ability to be in relationship. I don't think
the relationship itself is teachable, although we can tune up some skills
and knowledge to enhance it. Helping workers to know who they are and how
they interact in the world with others, being aware of themselves is
fundamental though.
Dr. Carol Stuart
...
This has been one of the most stimulating of professional exchanges on
CYC-NET and I wanted to tell all of you who participated how much I enjoyed
your contributions. For those of you who have been lurking in the
luminescence of your screen, I invite you to jump in, especially those of
you who are living this on a day-to-day basis in your work with youth,
families and colleagues. Any exchange like this can only benefit from your
presence.
And we need you here on-line.
Relationships are the essence of Child and Youth Care practice for it is within the context of meaningful relationships that young people might have an experience of themselves different, and hopefully more satisfying, than their previous experiences. In the context of a caring relationship, they might find new ways of structuring their experience of the world and the encounters they have in it. The attention to relationship and being-in-relationship while utilizing everyday life events for therapeutic purposes is one of the ways in which the professional practice of Child and Youth Care work distinguishes itself from other forms of helping. I thank all of you who, over the past few months, have contributed to my professional development.
Thom Garfat
